I've had the privilege of speaking with Trey at length on more than one occasion and one of the interesting things he told me was that he has visited Brooklyn Bethel multiple times in order to give Watch Tower representatives a chance to tell their side of the story, on their own turf and at his expense mind you. Each time they chickened out and wouldn't even speak to him -- at all. Period. So, they are lying to their people when they say Trey has a closed mind, when in fact THEY are the ones with the closed minds.
As a journalist, all Trey is interested in is facts. It's one of the reasons he contacted me, and contacted many others in the ex-JW community he thinks might be able to shed light on whatever he is reporting. In my case it was my Bethel experience from my first book he was interested in when preparing for his last visit there. He does extensive research on anything he is writing about, which is something most of us can see in his reporting.
I'm positive that if he were to come up with exonerating information on the Watch Tower, proving them innocent, he would simply report that. He has no agenda other than finding out and then reporting on the truth. It is just as good a story to report a poor innocent religious organization being set up and persecuted by allegedly lying disgruntled ex-members, than it is to write what he has been reporting.
Of course, what he has found instead is that all the things people like Barbara Anderson, Candace Conti and others have been telling him are 100% true and it is this religious organization that are the liars.
Brock Talon
JoinedPosts by Brock Talon
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Reveal News: How Jehovah’s Witness leaders are responding to child abuse scrutiny by Trey Bundy
by AndersonsInfo inhttps://www.revealnews.org/blog/how-jehovahs-witness-leaders-are-responding-to-child-abuse-scrutiny/.
by trey bundy .
december 14, 2015 .
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Brock Talon
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Watchtower 1974 says FAT Brothers will be disfellowshiped and not enter Paradise!!!
by Witness 007 insomeone at bethel dinning room was hogging all the bread rolls!!!
would a brother on the writting dep.
dare vent his frustration thru the spiritual food our watchtower???
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Brock Talon
ttdtt, Jabba the Hut only had parents who were JWs... he was never baptized, mainly because they couldn't find a body of water big enough to do it. So there! -
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Watchtower 1974 says FAT Brothers will be disfellowshiped and not enter Paradise!!!
by Witness 007 insomeone at bethel dinning room was hogging all the bread rolls!!!
would a brother on the writting dep.
dare vent his frustration thru the spiritual food our watchtower???
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Brock Talon
Technically gluttony is a disfellowshipping sin. But I have yet to hear of anyone ever being disfellowshipped for it in the history of the Jehovah's Witness religion. I could be wrong here, but I would venture to say it is extremely rare and possibly never to have happened. Please, someone chime in if I am wrong and you know of someone who was disfellowshipped for gluttony or "greediness". (Not just counseled for it.) I'd love to hear that story.
I do agree that being "fat" alone isn't sufficient for the DF'ing because that can be attributed to other things besides gluttony. It's just medical science that it's more difficult to keep the weight off as we age due to our metabolism slowing down, our activity slowing down, and so on.
DF'ing for being fat is a slippery slope I seriously doubt any elder body would be willing to start walking on for a few reasons:
1. How would you define it? How much overweight is too much? Do we go by the technical BMI levels or something more than that? If more, how much fat is too fat deserving of expulsion?
2. So many JWs are overweight themselves, the question would be how many elder bodies are there where at least one of their own would not facing having themselves or a family member DFed?
3. This would be especially difficult in the U.S. where a huge percentage of the populate is overweight by strict technical BMI standards.
I had one elder when growing up who had a HUGE wife, I mean 400 pounds big. She had a very pretty face and actually was a very sweet lady too. He would brag about loving all of her "curves". He had book study at his house where he placed "Big Beautiful Woman" magazines everywhere so we could see them. They never hid that they both ate quite lavishly either, in fact, they bragged bout their "escargot parties" and so on. I never once heard a single discussion where either of them were on deck for DF'ing or even got a stern talking to or he was threatened with losing his privileges. I recall quite clearly my parents discussing it between themselves as they were puzzled that this could go on "in an elder's home".
This is part of the "selective sin" that JWs love to practice, where over eating and even over drinking is often looked the other way, but sexual sin has immediate and severe consequences. -
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Revelation - it's grand climax is at hand
by Listener insome people point out the subliminal pictures in the wtbts publications but sometimes things are just so obvious, such as the title of the book above.. the person who came up with the title for this book must have had a good old laugh.. interestingly, this book first came out in 1988 and has not been included in the online library but nothing has replaced it.
the org is really going backwards when they ditch old light and cannot come up with anything new.
they are real wankers ;)..
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Brock Talon
Babylon the Great has Fallen!.... in my pants. -
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A question about fading....
by Tornintwo ini understand that many on this forum are undertaking a slow fade, over months, years even.. can i ask what is the benefit of that instead of a fast fade?.
as i understand it, the elders only have to deal judicially with people who are still active witnesses, known in the community as witnesses, having contact and influence with witnesses etc.
so surely the sooner you stop attending meetings the better.
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Brock Talon
I talk about fading in my book "Escape from Paradise" in a chapter called "Death may be the easiest way." I try to explain to the non-JW that there are only 4 ways to leave the Jehovah's Witnesses:
1. Disfellowshipping
2. Disassociation
3. Fading
4. Death
I attempt to explain to those unfamiliar how all 4 of these work; here's an excerpt of how I describe fading:
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Fading out of the Jehovah's Witness faith often takes skill and subtlety, as well as a fair amount of good luck and favorable circumstance. Ex-JWs usually consider fading to be the trickiest of the ways to leave the faith. It also seems to be the most desirable way in most cases, because the pain from total shunning can be avoided, while at the same time moving on with your life. If you have no friends, no family, no coworkers and no neighbors who are Jehovah's Witnesses, and you really don't care if you ever see one again for as long as you live, then disfellowshipping and disassociation may not hurt you that much. However, this is not a very common situation. Because of this, many choose to try to fade, even if it is the most difficult to pull off.
To successfully fade from the Watch Tower clutches, you have to use passive aggressive skills to the max. If you don't have the predisposition for it, or the good luck to have elders in your congregation or family members who will let you fade, then you could ultimately be forced into a disfellowshipping or disassociation situation.
To fade usually means to slowly reduce your meeting attendance and all other association with the Witnesses. You usually have to do this as imperceptibly as possible. If you have family members who are very active, this can make things difficult. If you are an elder or ministerial servant, this makes it tough as well. To fade successfully, you have to make sure to never say anything negative about the Watch Tower Society or about their doctrine or behavior. You have to make excuses for why you are not attending meetings and not going out in field service, always implying that you know you should do more and that you plan on doing it if you can. Being contrite about things makes it more acceptable and less suspicious to other Jehovah's Witnesses, because you will not be perceived as a threat to them.
In order to fade successfully, you will need to get the other Jehovah's Witnesses to simply deem you "weak in The Truth," "spiritually weak" or "inactive." You will have to be able to bear this labeling, and the partial shunning you will receive from it. Partial shunning (also called "marking") is actually what you want to have happen. This is when individual JWs will begin to omit you from their social activities, and will whisper about you behind your back. Getting marked means less to your family though, because nobody expects your family members to completely cut you off just because others avoid you for not being a good strong JW. As long as you are not disfellowshipped or disassociated, your family can still talk to you. So, if you want to fade successfully, you have to accept the marking (partial shunning) that comes with it.
To fade successfully also means that you have to refrain from openly doing the many things you know could get you disfellowshipped. You cannot fade, hang around Jehovah's Witnesses from time to time, but then openly move in with a boyfriend or girlfriend. (JWs cannot have sex outside of marriage.) You cannot fade, hang Christmas lights on your house and have Jehovah's Witness friends over for eggnog. (JWs cannot celebrate any holiday.) You cannot fade, and then run for public office in your town. (JWs cannot be involved in politics.) If you try to mix these things, you will be hunted down by the elders of the congregation you faded from, and disfellowshipped for conduct unbecoming a Jehovah's Witness "Christian."
This is what makes fading from the Jehovah's Witness faith so difficult for so many. You may think you are fading successfully by not going to meetings and not doing public preaching any longer, but in time forget that you cannot attend a wedding at the church of a non-Witness friend, who knows one of your Witness friends. (JWs can never attend any other church.) You may forget that you should not attend a work-related friend's bachelor party with strippers, only to have a Jehovah's Witness workmate hear about you being there. (JWs cannot be involved in loose conduct.) There are so many rules and regulations in the Jehovah's Witness faith that can get you disfellowshipped, including things like letting your child have a blood transfusion to save their life, picking up lottery winnings in public, or smoking a celebratory cigar following a child's birth. In time, you may slip up and be seen doing some of these things. If you are still associating with Jehovah's Witnesses in any meaningful way, then watch out! You will pay the price for your folly, and will be formally disfellowshipped.
To recap, successfully fading means you have to disassociate yourself in a manner of speaking, just not formally. In that way, you can always talk to Jehovah's Witnesses when you need to. In order to be safe though, you should keep that association rare and on your own terms. The less the active Jehovah's Witnesses know about your new non-Witness life, the better.
I personally am a fader. I sold my home and moved far enough away to require me to change congregations, but close enough to still have access to the town I grew accustomed to. I had my congregational records moved from my old one to my new one, and then simply stopped going to meetings altogether. The new elders didn't have a vested interest in me enough to care that I did not attend anymore, so I was free. Since my immediate family lived in another state and had faded themselves, with no other family members being Jehovah's Witnesses, my fading was relatively simple.
I still run into old Witness "friends" from time to time, and they are pleasant enough to me when we speak. We can talk about old times, but I try not to bring up anything specific about my current life that could alarm them. When they ask me directly if I am "still going to meetings," I tell them no, but try to look sad about it. They will shake their heads and admonish me to try to get back to "the safety of Jehovah's Organization." At that, I will grimace and nod my head in return. They think I'm nodding my head in agreement with them. In actuality, I'm grimacing and nodding my head because I'm telling myself, "Yes, I knew you would say that same old tired Watch Tower robot-speak."
I have actually had one or two of those old "friends" attempt to get together with me socially, but I always make an excuse to get out of it, especially if it means I would be spending a lot of time with them. I like to keep my encounters with Jehovah's Witnesses brief, using that short time to do what some ex-JWs call "reverse witnessing." By this, I mean that I will let them see how happy and fulfilled my life is. I show them pictures of my family life, talk about my wonderful non-JW wife and tell them about the parties I attended recently with my close non-JW friends. I will also talk about my fulfilling career, or my adorable pets, or any other number of things like that. I do this because most Jehovah's Witnesses believe it is impossible to be happy and joyful outside of their religion, especially if you used to be one of them. When they don't find me angry, miserable, or walking around like the living dead, it puzzles them. I am always hoping that this will plant seeds of doubt in their minds so that someday they will wake up to realize what they don't have. Yes, my approach is subtle, but it's really the only thing I can do. I have rarely seen an ex-JW win by using an in-your-face approach with an active Jehovah's Witness, that's why I have chosen to avoid that route.
That is also why I use a pen name. Should any of my Witness acquaintances find out I am the author Brock Talon, they would never speak to me again for writing "apostate" books. Even though that really wouldn't hurt me any longer, it would hurt them. I would never be able help any of them after that. Besides, I really would not get any joy out of hurting their feelings just because I could do so. I try to keep in mind that it is not entirely their fault that they are the way they are. After all, I used to be just like them.
For the time being, these people may think they have marked me because I am not strong in The Truth, but they at least don't totally shun me. In reality though, I am the one who has marked them. That is something that would never dawn on them, since they believe they are the chosen ones and always have the upper hand. I let them think whatever they like, because my life is peaceful, and free from the Sword of Damocles hanging over my head, while I know one hundred percent that theirs is not.
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Brock Talon
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Retirement Planning for ex-JW's
by Simon inthis is something i think about a lot, possibly because i'm just getting older.
it seems that not only should i finally one day decide what i want to do with my life, but i should also be planning for retirement.. hands up everyone who feels their future has been royally screwed by the wts experience?.
if you were a good jw and followed the wts advice you could well be finding yourself facing middle or even old age without much or anything put aside in retirement savings.
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Brock Talon
Excellent post Simon. You have done this community a great service if they will only read it and try to do at least some of the suggestions you make.
I want to add that the consistent thing I see most people do wrong regarding savings (and ultimately, retirement) is not living beneath ones means. Everyone has a "means" because everyone has a different income amount and a different family situation (married / single, kids / no kids). But my casual observation is most people will buy the house or car that the bank says they can afford. Well, that's usually right AT their means, not beneath it. It is no sin to live at ones means... but this doesn't easily translate into being able to save. Most banks and realtors, etc. will encourage you to spend as much as their calculations will tell them you CAN spend. Then, most people get excited about that and buy the best car or house or rent the best apartment, etc. that they can. These BIG monthly expenditures are then set in stone for many months or even years and play the biggest part in a budget calculation later. So their budget starts out with a premise that these things HAVE to be this high. Often they do not. This is only because people do not really want to live beneath their means.
Another mistake many make is not taking advantage of their company's 401k match. I've heard from friends that say "Well, my company match is really poor. They only match 50% up to x thousands of dollars... so I don't participate". I ask them what they do with the money that they are not putting into the 401k and they will say "well, I invest it". So, I ask them this, "what investment do you have that guarantees 50% earnings?" Even if your company has a "poor" 50% or 25% match, that is guaranteed! Why not get this "free" money? On top of that, the money you put into the 401k to get the free money match is tax deferred, so you won't pay taxes on it until you retire and begin to withdraw it, probably at a lower tax rate. Not utilizing a company match, at least to the fullest amount your company will give, is silly. You can't get easier money. -
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What Written & Unwritten Rules Do Jehovah's Witnesses Have?
by minimus injws should "not go beyond what is written".. please list examples of how they do not follow that bible instruction..
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Brock Talon
My top 20 list of the things you can't do as a JW:
#20 - Can't watch Rated R movies. (Even some PG-13 are not allowable if they are "violent" or "demonic")
#19 - Can't watch cartoons that are "demonic" like Casper or the Smurfs.
#18 - Men can't wear beards. (Women can though, if they have a hormone problem... seen this from time to time actually...)
#17 - Can't listen to "music that debases". (Really, did early day Christians worry about singing evil "Roman songs"?)
#16 - Can't miss meetings, even if your employer mandates it. If so, you have to quit. (Did early day Christians do this?)
#15 - Men can't wear black or dark shirts on stage.
#13 - Men have to wear a suit or sports coat and tie to every meeting. (Do you really think early day Christians had to do the equivalent?)
#12 - Women can't wear skirts or dresses that are too far above the knee.
#11 - Women can't show ANY cleavage... ever. (Worst rule... ever)
#10 - Can't smoke... anything.
#9 - Can't vote, even for a local neighborhood issue.
#8 - Can't be a policeman, join the army, or really have any kind of secular authority in the world.
#7 - Can't date "too long" or you are not serious about marriage and won't "be used".
#6 - Can't be engaged "too long" or you are not serious about marriage and won't "be used".
#5 - Can't swear. (The Bible talks about swearing all the time and that a "good" person can in fact swear given the right circumstances.)
#4 - Can't masturbate. (In reality, pretty much EVERYONE ignores this rule, but lie about it.)
#3 - Men can't wear their hair over their ears. (Did early day Christians really care about this kind of thing?)
#2 - Can't have "worldly" friends. (Why not? How else can we win people over? By being xenophobic weirdos?)And #1 is...
Can't question an all powerful, all knowing "organization" about anything, even if they've proven to be wrong repeatedly since the time the organization was organized.
-Brock Talon -
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Generation changes chart - 3rd edition
by truthseeker ini started working on this chart 5 years ago.
i didn't think i'd have to update it again so soon.. .
linky in case image doesn't show below.
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Brock Talon
Regarding our dear departed Brother Gangas, I can almost hear again how he started his prayers:
Oh Jehovah, our Almighty, Beautiful, Celestial, Delightful, Energetic, Fantastic, Glorious, Honorable, Illustrious, Jubilant, Kind, Long Suffering, Majestic, Noble, Omniscient, Powerful... heavenly father.... -
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Generation changes chart - 3rd edition
by truthseeker ini started working on this chart 5 years ago.
i didn't think i'd have to update it again so soon.. .
linky in case image doesn't show below.
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Brock Talon
I was at Bethel when that iconic Watchtower was published, the one with Brother Gangas and other "1914 generation" anointed were printed on it. I was close to brother Gangas as well at that time, so I felt comfortable asking him about the cover, that is, what did he think about being on the cover and about the article itself.
He just smiled at me his Yoda smile and said nothing. -
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Today I got a review that left me scratching my head - what do you make of it?
by Brock Talon inas a published author on amazon, i'm used to getting negative reviews from time to time.
it goes with the territory and i'm ok with it.
writing is an art form, so no art is liked by everyone.
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Brock Talon
Mary J Blige, Thanks for that. Tell your mother that if she writes a review of my book, it will make my day. For the record, most of the experiences I have regarding my books are positive. So, it's not all bad reviews and people Facebook flaming me and saying they want to kill me. I didn't want to leave that impression. But every once in awhile I like to share with the ex-JW community the craziness I occasionally experience because I think you all will understand it the best and will usually have words of reassurance that I need too. This is so I don't regret publishing my story to the entire world.